Comments on: If Looks Could Kill – The Sukhoi SU-47 Berkut http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut The Newest Military Weapon Systems Sun, 05 Feb 2012 02:31:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Ethan http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-2#comment-38239 Ethan Wed, 02 Nov 2011 06:57:26 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-38239 For him to be firing at your six, he would either have to pass into visual range or go along the outside of visual range. Both of these are undesirable as passing into visual range means the Russians can get up close and personal; skirting around means it take more fuel to get into position and the Su-47 could turn into your direction which yields the same result. Also I believe someone has said this before: the Su-47 lacks much or any propoganda to it's name where as the F-22's is plentiful. While this doesn't change physics, it does mean that the American military can portray it as being far deadlier than actually is For him to be firing at your six, he would either have to pass into visual range or go along the outside of visual range. Both of these are undesirable as passing into visual range means the Russians can get up close and personal; skirting around means it take more fuel to get into position and the Su-47 could turn into your direction which yields the same result. Also I believe someone has said this before: the Su-47 lacks much or any propoganda to it’s name where as the F-22′s is plentiful. While this doesn’t change physics, it does mean that the American military can portray it as being far deadlier than actually is

]]> By: Bigal http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-2#comment-38228 Bigal Tue, 01 Nov 2011 17:20:18 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-38228 Forward swept wings were abandon due to instability at transonic and above speeds. Great manueverabilty at less than 500knts, but stability is a BIG issue the faster you go. Wings have to be extremely rigid, any flexing along undesired lines tears them off. Any notion of stealth for these craft are pure propoganda. Reduced radar signatures, fine, but any useful degree of stealth, uhm, no. As far as missiles go, F22 is going to fire from your six, detecting the missile will not save you, as out manouvering a missile requires getting it on your 9 o'clock for a high speed in-turning pass. That ain't happening from your six, where a mach3 missle hits you in seconds, sorry. As far as dogfighting, we're only discussing daytime here, as any night WILL belong to raptors, period. Going up after dark would be suicidal. If an F22 pilot allows himself to get caught in a close-in dogfight, he hasn't done his job, not the technique intended, however- even if he does, if he gets out of visual even once, he'll kill you. Russians have one thing going for them, and it's a biggie- it's the off-bore tracking and infra-red missile system. Tried and tested on the fulcrums, this is the most lethal system for dogfighting currently in existance. Wish the US had a system that advanced. Even that advantage may be short-lived, current low-power laser systems capable of blinding any infra-red missile are already in development. Forward swept wings were abandon due to instability at transonic and above speeds. Great manueverabilty at less than 500knts, but stability is a BIG issue the faster you go. Wings have to be extremely rigid, any flexing along undesired lines tears them off. Any notion of stealth for these craft are pure propoganda. Reduced radar signatures, fine, but any useful degree of stealth, uhm, no. As far as missiles go, F22 is going to fire from your six, detecting the missile will not save you, as out manouvering a missile requires getting it on your 9 o’clock for a high speed in-turning pass. That ain’t happening from your six, where a mach3 missle hits you in seconds, sorry. As far as dogfighting, we’re only discussing daytime here, as any night WILL belong to raptors, period. Going up after dark would be suicidal. If an F22 pilot allows himself to get caught in a close-in dogfight, he hasn’t done his job, not the technique intended, however- even if he does, if he gets out of visual even once, he’ll kill you. Russians have one thing going for them, and it’s a biggie- it’s the off-bore tracking and infra-red missile system. Tried and tested on the fulcrums, this is the most lethal system for dogfighting currently in existance. Wish the US had a system that advanced. Even that advantage may be short-lived, current low-power laser systems capable of blinding any infra-red missile are already in development.

]]> By: Ethan http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-2#comment-37736 Ethan Sun, 09 Oct 2011 21:17:51 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-37736 @Bobert You cannot GARANTEE that either the Su-37/47 will never see production. Ever heard of Secrets, moron? Obviously not, because otherwise you wouldn't make such rash decisions about aircraft production. Russia has one of the LARGEST industrial outputs on the planet. You think that in the event of war, Russia won't just sling it into production anyway, just because they're not producing it now, doesn't mean they'll never put it into production. F22 costs approximately $150,000,000 per AIRCRAFT. Su-37/47 wouldn't cost anywhere near that. As Stalin said "quantity has a quality of it's own" @Bobert

You cannot GARANTEE that either the Su-37/47 will never see production. Ever heard of Secrets, moron? Obviously not, because otherwise you wouldn’t make such rash decisions about aircraft production. Russia has one of the LARGEST industrial outputs on the planet. You think that in the event of war, Russia won’t just sling it into production anyway, just because they’re not producing it now, doesn’t mean they’ll never put it into production. F22 costs approximately $150,000,000 per AIRCRAFT. Su-37/47 wouldn’t cost anywhere near that. As Stalin said “quantity has a quality of it’s own”

]]> By: Bobert http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-2#comment-37664 Bobert Fri, 07 Oct 2011 18:42:45 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-37664 OK, here we go. For those fan boys of the SU-47 and SU-37 what is the single main difference between these two and the F-22 Raptor? Answer, The F-22 actually saw a production run where as BOTH the SU-47 and SU-37 where BOTH SCRAPPED. Neither the Su-47 nor the 37 will EVER see a production run. MAybe you people just like to wank to the dreams of what could of been rather then face the dim reality of what you have. OK, here we go. For those fan boys of the SU-47 and SU-37 what is the single main difference between these two and the F-22 Raptor? Answer, The F-22 actually saw a production run where as BOTH the SU-47 and SU-37 where BOTH SCRAPPED. Neither the Su-47 nor the 37 will EVER see a production run. MAybe you people just like to wank to the dreams of what could of been rather then face the dim reality of what you have.

]]> By: Ethan http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-2#comment-33960 Ethan Fri, 29 Jul 2011 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-33960 I know its been mentioned before but the F22 costs an vast amount of money where as the berkut does not and with Russian industry they will be able to produce many more aircraft than the americans can which turns it into a numbers game: eventually something will fail the gun will jam or the missile will hong or become a moonshot where the Russians will be able to field such vast numbers that one will bring a Raptor down. Plus the Americans may get over-confident and attack larger proportions of Su-47's and eventually become outgunned @UFO dude, the UN has contingency plans for Extra-terrestrial invasion I know its been mentioned before but the F22 costs an vast amount of money where as the berkut does not and with Russian industry they will be able to produce many more aircraft than the americans can which turns it into a numbers game: eventually something will fail the gun will jam or the missile will hong or become a moonshot where the Russians will be able to field such vast numbers that one will bring a Raptor down. Plus the Americans may get over-confident and attack larger proportions of Su-47′s and eventually become outgunned

@UFO dude, the UN has contingency plans for Extra-terrestrial invasion

]]> By: Ent http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-2#comment-28751 Ent Wed, 27 Apr 2011 02:08:44 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-28751 Ignoring the "vapour" specification issues of an experimental design verses a highly classified USA design it does raise and interesting argument of missile versus guns and shear performance versus stealth approach. A F117 at night proved very hard to hit and no doubt a F22 will be harder. At day time it would not surprise me that something as old and basic as a MIG 19 would make life difficult for a F117 assuming that the MIG was not downed by a missile before it got into gun range. Yes I know that the F117 is a bomber not a fighter but use it as an example of stealth being a form of defence. The F35 appears to rely on stealth rather than performance so I do wonder if a cheaper high performance design would make a mess of it during the day. The F22 appears to be a mixture of stealth and performance which means it should be well placed to hold its own in both day and night with gun or missile. As an Australian I do wonder if with the F35 we are being sold hyper-ware or Raptor food. Gun versus missile or eyes verses radar is still not resolved as radar can be jammed or neutralised by stealth plus unless the radar is in the missile the stealth aircraft is no longer stealth with its radar on. But as proven in recent conflicts a top of line missile wins over a non stealth design, at least at petty dictator level of technology. I believe that all things being equal on the technological development front a non stealth design will be a better dog fighter and cheaper. The question is will this give it an edge during the day or will the USA love of missile to gun will win out. The strange effect of stealth might mean non missile lock nor long range detection so we are back to WWI tactics of patrols and plane performance. At the cost of the F22 the reversion to such tactics will bankrupt most nations so air defence would be Swiss cheese effective. I seam to remember that the Blitzkrieg was a return to Calvary tactics as tanks neutralised the machine gun's advantage. A case of what is old is new again. Ignoring the “vapour” specification issues of an experimental design verses a highly classified USA design it does raise and interesting argument of missile versus guns and shear performance versus stealth approach. A F117 at night proved very hard to hit and no doubt a F22 will be harder. At day time it would not surprise me that something as old and basic as a MIG 19 would make life difficult for a F117 assuming that the MIG was not downed by a missile before it got into gun range. Yes I know that the F117 is a bomber not a fighter but use it as an example of stealth being a form of defence. The F35 appears to rely on stealth rather than performance so I do wonder if a cheaper high performance design would make a mess of it during the day. The F22 appears to be a mixture of stealth and performance which means it should be well placed to hold its own in both day and night with gun or missile. As an Australian I do wonder if with the F35 we are being sold hyper-ware or Raptor food.

Gun versus missile or eyes verses radar is still not resolved as radar can be jammed or neutralised by stealth plus unless the radar is in the missile the stealth aircraft is no longer stealth with its
radar on. But as proven in recent conflicts a top of line missile wins over a non stealth design, at least at petty dictator level of technology.

I believe that all things being equal on the technological development front a non stealth design will be a better dog fighter and cheaper. The question is will this give it an edge during the day or will the USA love of missile to gun will win out.

The strange effect of stealth might mean non missile lock nor long range detection so we are back to WWI tactics of patrols and plane performance. At the cost of the F22 the reversion to such tactics will bankrupt most nations so air defence would be Swiss cheese effective. I seam to remember that the Blitzkrieg was a return to Calvary tactics as tanks neutralised the machine gun’s advantage. A case of what is old is new again.

]]> By: UFO dude http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-2#comment-27307 UFO dude Fri, 01 Apr 2011 17:54:31 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-27307 ok this may really be out of the blue but uhmm... versus extraterrestrial aircraft (you know, the disc shaped ufos) we (humanity) lose. I mean... they defy the very laws of physics lol! we should find another way to fly. not with rockets or wings. but something else... :D ok this may really be out of the blue but uhmm… versus extraterrestrial aircraft
(you know, the disc shaped ufos) we (humanity) lose.

I mean… they defy the very laws of physics lol!

we should find another way to fly. not with rockets or wings. but something else… :D

]]> By: Ethan http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-2#comment-26004 Ethan Wed, 09 Mar 2011 12:18:12 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-26004 I think what we are all forgetting is the RANGE of these air superiority fighters. the F22 cannot be fitted with drop tanks. however if you throw the american tankers into the mix it will be able to reach further, but the tanker HASN'T got stealth and so present a huge target. Furthermore, the F22 has stealth; their missiles dont. I think what we are all forgetting is the RANGE of these air superiority fighters. the F22 cannot be fitted with drop tanks. however if you throw the american tankers into the mix it will be able to reach further, but the tanker HASN’T got stealth and so present a huge target. Furthermore, the F22 has stealth; their missiles dont.

]]> By: MPankow http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-2#comment-24263 MPankow Fri, 11 Feb 2011 14:26:16 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-24263 I saw a lot of stupid comments by blind "republicans" here, I didn`t read the whole of them, makes no sense... I think the comparison between the Berkut and the F-22 is pointless. F-22 exists and is operational, even if just 189 are in service. Berkut is a design study, it does not exist, It won`t be able to enter production in the next 20 years, so this is a pointless comparison. On the other hand - i saw many people pointing out scored kills in the Gulf wars. This was a bad example which just showed how incompetent are you. Versions which were encountered in the Gulf wars were the so called "monkey" versions - most of them lacked the long range radar ( all american kills were scored with long range missiles ;) ), they could not operate the Archer and lacked other features available on the Russian spec model. They were flown by pilots who lacked experience and it is not clear about he condition in which the planes were. One problem with Russian planes is the maintenance. My country operated MiG-29s and I know a few pilots who have flown the MiG, the Grippen, the F-16 ( as we were considering them ) and the Eurofighter. They said the best planes were the Eurofighter and the MiG. I saw noone to talk about pricing. The russian equipment is cheaper than american. The PAK-FA is expected to cost around $100m, the F-22 costed $150m, now around $397m ( if the news on Bloomberg were correct :) ), which puts 2 F-22s against 3 PAK-FAs. Or, said otherwise, 200 F-22 against 300 PAK-FAs. This negates a previous comment that Russia builds quallity while USA - quantity - its exactly the opposite. Noone can say which is better, history says - quantity - German Panteras and Tigers were far better than the numerous T-34s but the later won. My personal opinion is that generaly the F-22 is the best plane available now. I do not know if they have resolved the paint issues yet. What is interesting is that the Raptor production was ceased in favour of the F-35 because there is no need of such design. However, Russia and India are developing their own version of a 5th gen, the PAK-FA which might force the US gov to reopen the F-22 negotiations with the contractors. A very nice plane with one great weakness which is the weapons it can carry. I know some US pilots were really concerned about this. Russia/India will have such a plane in 2016 or later, the first three airframes were successfuly tested but production is expected to start in 2015. I saw a lot of stupid comments by blind “republicans” here, I didn`t read the whole of them, makes no sense…
I think the comparison between the Berkut and the F-22 is pointless. F-22 exists and is operational, even if just 189 are in service. Berkut is a design study, it does not exist, It won`t be able to enter production in the next 20 years, so this is a pointless comparison. On the other hand – i saw many people pointing out scored kills in the Gulf wars. This was a bad example which just showed how incompetent are you. Versions which were encountered in the Gulf wars were the so called “monkey” versions – most of them lacked the long range radar ( all american kills were scored with long range missiles ;) ), they could not operate the Archer and lacked other features available on the Russian spec model. They were flown by pilots who lacked experience and it is not clear about he condition in which the planes were. One problem with Russian planes is the maintenance. My country operated MiG-29s and I know a few pilots who have flown the MiG, the Grippen, the F-16 ( as we were considering them ) and the Eurofighter. They said the best planes were the Eurofighter and the MiG. I saw noone to talk about pricing. The russian equipment is cheaper than american. The PAK-FA is expected to cost around $100m, the F-22 costed $150m, now around $397m ( if the news on Bloomberg were correct :) ), which puts 2 F-22s against 3 PAK-FAs. Or, said otherwise, 200 F-22 against 300 PAK-FAs. This negates a previous comment that Russia builds quallity while USA – quantity – its exactly the opposite. Noone can say which is better, history says – quantity – German Panteras and Tigers were far better than the numerous T-34s but the later won.
My personal opinion is that generaly the F-22 is the best plane available now. I do not know if they have resolved the paint issues yet. What is interesting is that the Raptor production was ceased in favour of the F-35 because there is no need of such design. However, Russia and India are developing their own version of a 5th gen, the PAK-FA which might force the US gov to reopen the F-22 negotiations with the contractors. A very nice plane with one great weakness which is the weapons it can carry. I know some US pilots were really concerned about this. Russia/India will have such a plane in 2016 or later, the first three airframes were successfuly tested but production is expected to start in 2015.

]]> By: philonetic http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-1#comment-23974 philonetic Sun, 06 Feb 2011 15:23:09 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-23974 @SuzzyWoozy At the time they posted "f-22 isnt combat ready" it was already flying missions. gg. @SuzzyWoozy
At the time they posted “f-22 isnt combat ready” it was already flying missions. gg.

]]> By: Collier Hageman http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-1#comment-23064 Collier Hageman Thu, 20 Jan 2011 00:43:28 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-23064 The US built a fighter with this same 'swept-forward' wing design. It was essentially an F-16 with different wings, and was called (I believe) the X-31. It was a fly-by-wire design and had an integral flight computer that made as many as 30 adjustments per second to the control surfaces in order to make it stable. It did prove highly maneuverable but the stresses put on this wing configuration were immense at mach+ speed and if the flight computer failed the aircraft was virtually uncontrollable at any speed and for these and other reasons the design was never put into production. I'm certain the Russians have discovered all this too, mostly from studying our design. I have strong doubts this aircraft will ever be more than an interesting sideshow in the annals of aviation. As for the above comment by 'Ivan' - "Everyone knows that Russians produce in quality, while Americans in quantity." Judging by this uninformed and obtuse statement I strongly suspect it is a comment by someone not Russian at all attempting to foment anti-Russian sentiment. The US built a fighter with this same ‘swept-forward’ wing design. It was essentially an F-16 with different wings, and was called (I believe) the X-31. It was a fly-by-wire design and had an integral flight computer that made as many as 30 adjustments per second to the control surfaces in order to make it stable. It did prove highly maneuverable but the stresses put on this wing configuration were immense at mach+ speed and if the flight computer failed the aircraft was virtually uncontrollable at any speed and for these and other reasons the design was never put into production. I’m certain the Russians have discovered all this too, mostly from studying our design. I have strong doubts this aircraft will ever be more than an interesting sideshow in the annals of aviation. As for the above comment by ‘Ivan’ – “Everyone knows that Russians produce in quality, while Americans in quantity.” Judging by this uninformed and obtuse statement I strongly suspect it is a comment by someone not Russian at all attempting to foment anti-Russian sentiment.

]]> By: Me http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-1#comment-21846 Me Sun, 02 Jan 2011 18:30:30 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-21846 lol. American people should stop thinking they are the best...really u think u are the best but first off the russian have better tanks, better aircraft, better aa, beter subs, and so on and so on. If russia's economic was better they already were supority lol. American people should stop thinking they are the best…really u think u are the best but first off the russian have better tanks, better aircraft, better aa, beter subs, and so on and so on. If russia’s economic was better they already were supority

]]> By: Me http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-1#comment-21845 Me Sun, 02 Jan 2011 18:27:31 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-21845 lol indian 5th gen fighter is russian u stupid sucker... its just a few indian mods in it but it wont be better seen the statics of the aircraft (like: it cant reach 2500km/h) lol indian 5th gen fighter is russian u stupid sucker… its just a few indian mods in it but it wont be better seen the statics of the aircraft (like: it cant reach 2500km/h)

]]> By: michael http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-1#comment-21816 michael Sun, 02 Jan 2011 00:38:21 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-21816 also the goddamned thing doesnt have thrust vectoring and the turns are slow compared to the mach3 tail spins of the f 22 along with the above said weaponry the slammers use advanced radar locking systems basically if you fire off youre flares you still would have no hope because it will not lose its lock unless you turn your radar off then it will become a regular stinger then you can only use your flares confirming to you morons the superior f22 and f35 jsf over the sukhoi and about said thrust vectoring nozzlles you couldnt fit them on the twin engine flanker motor without having to rebuild the whole goddamned thing also the goddamned thing doesnt have thrust vectoring and the turns are slow compared to the mach3 tail spins of the f 22 along with the above said weaponry the slammers use advanced radar locking systems basically if you fire off youre flares you still would have no hope because it will not lose its lock unless you turn your radar off then it will become a regular stinger then you can only use your flares confirming to you morons the superior f22 and f35 jsf over the sukhoi and about said thrust vectoring nozzlles you couldnt fit them on the twin engine flanker motor without having to rebuild the whole goddamned thing

]]> By: michael http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-1#comment-21814 michael Sat, 01 Jan 2011 23:46:55 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-21814 the sukhoi is highly manueverable yes and it is true it is of high quality but the f 22 raptor is not only faster but better armed equipped for air supperriority with all aspect missiles which are highly maneuverable short range weapon and multi rail systems along with slamers and joint strike missiles clearly better equipped able to destroy multiple air targets at once clearly making it a better choice for air superriority while the berkut is better for strike missions the sukhoi is highly manueverable yes and it is true it is of high quality but the f 22 raptor is not only faster but better armed equipped for air supperriority with all aspect missiles which are highly maneuverable short range weapon and multi rail systems along with slamers and joint strike missiles clearly better equipped able to destroy multiple air targets at once clearly making it a better choice for air superriority while the berkut is better for strike missions

]]> By: Rohit Kumar Verma http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-1#comment-21753 Rohit Kumar Verma Fri, 31 Dec 2010 06:10:50 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-21753 I like su-47 Berkut of its attractive and loveable design. There is no comparision with any other Fighter Planes of Amarica.Russians are best in Aircraft or any armes Technology.Indians always belive on Russians Technology.Su-47 Berkut is the new generation fighter plane. Not only me all Indians belives by heart Russia is the best and beleaveable Friend of India. I like su-47 Berkut of its attractive and loveable design. There is no comparision with any other Fighter Planes of Amarica.Russians are best in Aircraft or any armes Technology.Indians always belive on Russians Technology.Su-47 Berkut is the new generation fighter plane. Not only me all Indians belives by heart Russia is the best and beleaveable Friend of India.

]]> By: de concerned http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-1#comment-21555 de concerned Sun, 26 Dec 2010 16:46:23 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-21555 America is living in illusion if she thinks that she can now relax on her dominant throne of world power and allow their shortsighted congress people relegate her to trying to keep up with the Russians, Chinese and others. these others want to to take the lead and impose their believe system to all, and they are ready to do so at all cost. America should decide now it she's tired of protecting world freedom. America is living in illusion if she thinks that she can now relax on her dominant throne of world power and allow their shortsighted congress people relegate her to trying to keep up with the Russians, Chinese and others. these others want to to take the lead and impose their believe system to all, and they are ready to do so at all cost. America should decide now it she’s tired of protecting world freedom.

]]> By: john youngs http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-1#comment-20828 john youngs Sun, 12 Dec 2010 21:09:02 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-20828 The Sukhoi Su-47 Berkut, IF put into production, would have thrust-vectoring nozzles on it's engines. The plane was designed specifically for the 41F engine which has not been available in large numbers as it's too new. So, the Su-27 Flanker engines were substituted. Right now, the Berkut is an "experimental" technology plane, but if they can increase the mach speed (it can travel faster than mach 1.6, but the Russians have intentionally limited it to 1.6 due to wing-warping issues at speeds near mach 2.0 and above. With this problem fixed, along with the newer engines, the Berkut would be an enormously effective airplane in combat; albiet the "stealth" issue in comparison with the F-22. With avionics and more specifically the detection capabilities of the software involved; along with adequate pilot training; these things will ultimately be the major determinants of who will win dogfights in these aircraft. If you "see" the enemy before he "sees" you, chances are you will make the kill (missles here). Warfare - even air warfare - is often a dicey thing. Luck often plays a role as well. There was even a Huey helicopter (a civilian "Air America" ship - the gunner doing the job with an AK-47 out the side door!!!) in the Vietnam War that killed 2 fixed wing (AN-2 Colts) planes in an aerial battle!! So just because one plane has a slightly better "this or that" does not necessairly mean one is GOING to be the "better" in a specific combat scenario. One-on-one? I'd take the F-22 Raptor, right now. Later on - say in 5 years or so? Hard to tell. Remember what Spock (Leonard Nemoy) said in a distant past Star Trek episode: "Military secrets are the most fleeting of all...!!" I have to agree with that statement. Cheers, JY The Sukhoi Su-47 Berkut, IF put into production, would have thrust-vectoring nozzles on it’s engines. The plane was designed specifically for the 41F engine which has not been available in large numbers as it’s too new. So, the Su-27 Flanker engines were substituted. Right now, the Berkut is an “experimental” technology plane, but if they can increase the mach speed (it can travel faster than mach 1.6, but the Russians have intentionally limited it to 1.6 due to wing-warping issues at speeds near mach 2.0 and above. With this problem fixed, along with the newer engines, the Berkut would be an enormously effective airplane in combat; albiet the “stealth” issue in comparison with the F-22. With avionics and more specifically the detection capabilities of the software involved; along with adequate pilot training; these things will ultimately be the major determinants of who will win dogfights in these aircraft. If you “see” the enemy before he “sees” you, chances are you will make the kill (missles here). Warfare – even air warfare – is often a dicey thing. Luck often plays a role as well. There was even a Huey helicopter (a civilian “Air America” ship – the gunner doing the job with an AK-47 out the side door!!!) in the Vietnam War that killed 2 fixed wing (AN-2 Colts) planes in an aerial battle!! So just because one plane has a slightly better “this or that” does not necessairly mean one is GOING to be the “better” in a specific combat scenario. One-on-one? I’d take the F-22 Raptor, right now. Later on – say in 5 years or so? Hard to tell. Remember what Spock (Leonard Nemoy) said in a distant past Star Trek episode: “Military secrets are the most fleeting of all…!!” I have to agree with that statement. Cheers, JY

]]> By: Chris http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-1#comment-20494 Chris Fri, 03 Dec 2010 05:14:33 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-20494 Russian Arms are very good. Su-47 is very good, but some people disagree that Su-47 can be compared to F-22 Raptor just because its like 2 or 1 point off or something. Also, that one point makes a difference in so called "Generation." Russian Arms are very good. Su-47 is very good, but some people disagree that Su-47 can be compared to F-22 Raptor just because its like 2 or 1 point off or something. Also, that one point makes a difference in so called “Generation.”

]]> By: Quicksilver1230 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-1#comment-18004 Quicksilver1230 Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:41:59 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-18004 WTF are you people talking about ????? While this jet is very sexy It is not manuverable in comparison to the f-22... there is no thrust vectoring......and the Russians are still using 4th gen tech in there navi, enemy detection.....It's awesome that they have nice missiles, buuuuuuuutttt it makes no differences if the f-22/35 has already launched and moved on to the next target x 4 by the the time the russian's very nice looking aircraft can even see them..... AKA the 4-22 just took out for of your SU-47's and oh by the way jet number five is about to deploy flares and get blown up for the mother land seconds after he realizes the f-22 was even there. Thrust vectoring, also thrust vector control or TVC, is the ability of an aircraft, rocket or other vehicle to manipulate the direction of the thrust from its engine(s) or motor in order to control the attitude or angular velocity of the vehicle.....the SU-47 engines are static...in other words they can't be manipulated in any way to control the angle of flight.....AKA take a look at this bird when it flys... the engines do not angle at all AKA no thrust vectoring..... NOw go look at vids of the f-22 you can evry plainly see how the engines are manipulated to thrust vector...same with the f-35's single engine.... In closing, the f-22 has a cetain number of squadrons and there is no plan to increase this number of planes because it is TOO ADVANCED......there is nothing coming out in the next 20 years that will be able to touch it........thus why spend 100 million on one f-22 when you can by 6 f-35s ?????? All this equals...SU-47 is very sexy....but get owned by the f-22/35/16/18/15 or one of our LAD guys with a stinger missile on his shoulder hahahahaha WTF are you people talking about ????? While this jet is very sexy It is not manuverable in comparison to the f-22… there is no thrust vectoring……and the Russians are still using 4th gen tech in there navi, enemy detection…..It’s awesome that they have nice missiles, buuuuuuuutttt it makes no differences if the f-22/35 has already launched and moved on to the next target x 4 by the the time the russian’s very nice looking aircraft can even see them….. AKA the 4-22 just took out for of your SU-47′s and oh by the way jet number five is about to deploy flares and get blown up for the mother land seconds after he realizes the f-22 was even there.

Thrust vectoring, also thrust vector control or TVC, is the ability of an aircraft, rocket or other vehicle to manipulate the direction of the thrust from its engine(s) or motor in order to control the attitude or angular velocity of the vehicle…..the SU-47 engines are static…in other words they can’t be manipulated in any way to control the angle of flight…..AKA take a look at this bird when it flys… the engines do not angle at all AKA no thrust vectoring….. NOw go look at vids of the f-22 you can evry plainly see how the engines are manipulated to thrust vector…same with the f-35′s single engine…. In closing, the f-22 has a cetain number of squadrons and there is no plan to increase this number of planes because it is TOO ADVANCED……there is nothing coming out in the next 20 years that will be able to touch it……..thus why spend 100 million on one f-22 when you can by 6 f-35s ??????

All this equals…SU-47 is very sexy….but get owned by the f-22/35/16/18/15 or one of our LAD guys with a stinger missile on his shoulder hahahahaha

]]> By: Sumar http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-1#comment-15724 Sumar Sat, 14 Aug 2010 16:35:58 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-15724 To mu knowledge, Berkut is as stealthy as the F-35. It would at least be easier to shove a missile up the F-35s tailpipe than the Golden Eagles. And the F-35 is a duck compared to the Berkuts hawk when it comes to maneuverability. Key stealth features of the Berkut: All the weapons are housed internally, the engine intakes are shrouded by RAM composites, engine exhaust is ionized like PAKFA, there are two radar cancelers in each wing etc Key stealth features of the F-35: A much smaller weapon load-out housed internally, intakes shrouded by RAM, engine nozzles are RAM It is available for sale to foreign powers at 125 million per copy. To mu knowledge, Berkut is as stealthy as the F-35. It would at least be easier to shove a missile up the F-35s tailpipe than the Golden Eagles. And the F-35 is a duck compared to the Berkuts hawk when it comes to maneuverability.

Key stealth features of the Berkut:
All the weapons are housed internally, the engine intakes are shrouded by RAM composites, engine exhaust is ionized like PAKFA, there are two radar cancelers in each wing etc

Key stealth features of the F-35:
A much smaller weapon load-out housed internally, intakes shrouded by RAM, engine nozzles are RAM

It is available for sale to foreign powers at 125 million per copy.

]]> By: Boogie http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-1#comment-15194 Boogie Tue, 03 Aug 2010 02:48:48 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-15194 sorry that i came late to the threat, but fwy...i've got guys on Air Nat'l Guard (Reserve) that have beaten a F22 on their F16....so pilot training is a Must when comparing Aircrafts..other than that I do stick to my previous post...SU-47 if by someway can retract wings while cruising and have the odd angle wing position for dog fights (plus vector propulsion) ...... that's a extremelly interesting option.....due pass it along...if anyone can do it, i'd like to see it b4 damn "UAV's" take over sorry that i came late to the threat, but fwy…i’ve got guys on Air Nat’l Guard (Reserve) that have beaten a F22 on their F16….so pilot training is a Must when comparing Aircrafts..other than that I do stick to my previous post…SU-47 if by someway can retract wings while cruising and have the odd angle wing position for dog fights (plus vector propulsion) …… that’s a extremelly interesting option…..due pass it along…if anyone can do it, i’d like to see it b4 damn “UAV’s” take over

]]> By: Boogie http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-1#comment-15193 Boogie Tue, 03 Aug 2010 02:41:00 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-15193 if anyone knows...and as a suggestion too...if u can make the SU-47 with retractable wings (as a F-14) that would really be a "Raptor" killer...extra manuverable due to the odd wing angle and then extra smooth for cruising....u can contact me at cjrm25@gmail.com.....due pass it along to any crazy russian engineer maybe they can pull it off if anyone knows…and as a suggestion too…if u can make the SU-47 with retractable wings (as a F-14) that would really be a “Raptor” killer…extra manuverable due to the odd wing angle and then extra smooth for cruising….u can contact me at cjrm25@gmail.com…..due pass it along to any crazy russian engineer maybe they can pull it off

]]> By: Brian http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-1#comment-13294 Brian Mon, 07 Jun 2010 23:39:31 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-13294 Su-47 isn't actually considered any generation because it is NOT A PRODUCTION AIRCRAFT. There is only ONE in the world and isn't it incapable of carrying missiles? The Russian's have superior missiles. Basically, IMO, the Su-47 is the more capable fighter if it came to existence as a fighter because you can always just replace engines. If you say that speed and ranged kills are the only things that matter, that kind of thinking was pretty much what lost the Vietnam War (F-4 Phantom II's extremely fail capabilities) and if that is the only thing that matters, then MiG-31, it can go at least Mach 3.1 and carries superior Russian Missiles. Su-47 isn’t actually considered any generation because it is NOT A PRODUCTION AIRCRAFT. There is only ONE in the world and isn’t it incapable of carrying missiles? The Russian’s have superior missiles. Basically, IMO, the Su-47 is the more capable fighter if it came to existence as a fighter because you can always just replace engines. If you say that speed and ranged kills are the only things that matter, that kind of thinking was pretty much what lost the Vietnam War (F-4 Phantom II’s extremely fail capabilities) and if that is the only thing that matters, then MiG-31, it can go at least Mach 3.1 and carries superior Russian Missiles.

]]> By: Guest http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-1#comment-10907 Guest Wed, 14 Apr 2010 21:50:56 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-10907 Well just had to add my too cents in this thread but the maneuverability of the F-22 is greater than that of a SU-47, for crying loud the software in the flight controls sys of the F-22 has a limiter. Why, the plane is design to pull some serious g's in some tight banks with thrust vectoring, the plane's structure can handle the g's but a pilot can't. So wait a couple of more years with uav tech and we will have pilot-less f-22 sporting some crazy maneuverability Well just had to add my too cents in this thread but the maneuverability of the F-22 is greater than that of a SU-47, for crying loud the software in the flight controls sys of the F-22 has a limiter. Why, the plane is design to pull some serious g’s in some tight banks with thrust vectoring, the plane’s structure can handle the g’s but a pilot can’t. So wait a couple of more years with uav tech and we will have pilot-less f-22 sporting some crazy maneuverability

]]> By: akdj http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-1#comment-9477 akdj Thu, 04 Mar 2010 15:27:07 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-9477 because we love blowing one another up. :) because we love blowing one another up.
:)

]]> By: rowan http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-1#comment-9048 rowan Sun, 21 Feb 2010 02:24:05 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-9048 OMG sorry they cannot pull 12 gs my stupid mistake. and PS the raptor also has super avionics. but remember that these two aircraft are a relatively even match. tthe planes would likely start head on, merge. then the Su47 turns around first and throws a missile. the american either dodges or jams it. at this point he is turned. then its a firing match. OMG sorry they cannot pull 12 gs my stupid mistake. and PS the raptor also has super avionics. but remember that these two aircraft are a relatively even match. tthe planes would likely start head on, merge. then the Su47 turns around first and throws a missile. the american either dodges or jams it. at this point he is turned. then its a firing match.

]]> By: Rowan http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-1#comment-8740 Rowan Sun, 07 Feb 2010 18:47:09 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-8740 People say close in dogfights are a thing of the past. WRONG!!!!! they said that about Vietnam, desert storm, and the middle eastern wars with Isreal and the arab states. the close in dogfights happened anyway. I also point out that the Russians DO have better missiles, but its a moot point since both missiles can pull 12 Gs and that is more than the Berkut or the Raptor or the F-35. They both have differing pholosophies- The Berkut: turning, wing load, good missiles, range and it looks like a pretty bird. And lets clear up that it DOES have stealth, if not as good as the F-22s. F-22:Super stealth, VTOL in some versions. Not very nimble but Super powerful arnament. Internal weapons bay = biig help. speed is relatively even. And so u people know i am canadian so i am not biased to either nation. People say close in dogfights are a thing of the past. WRONG!!!!! they said that about Vietnam, desert storm, and the middle eastern wars with Isreal and the arab states. the close in dogfights happened anyway. I also point out that the Russians DO have better missiles, but its a moot point since both missiles can pull 12 Gs and that is more than the Berkut or the Raptor or the F-35. They both have differing pholosophies-

The Berkut: turning, wing load, good missiles, range and it looks like a pretty bird. And lets clear up that it DOES have stealth, if not as good as the F-22s.

F-22:Super stealth, VTOL in some versions. Not very nimble but Super powerful arnament.
Internal weapons bay = biig help.
speed is relatively even.
And so u people know i am canadian so i am not biased to either nation.

]]> By: Bruno http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-1#comment-8661 Bruno Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:03:58 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-8661 Please do some research before you posted your opinions. I do not need to augured which one is the best fighter yet the F22 or SU37. The evidences were revealed in the Iraq War. Some can make an augured that due to the pilots training. That was a poor excused. Please do some research before you posted your opinions.
I do not need to augured which one is the best fighter yet the F22 or SU37. The evidences were revealed in the Iraq War. Some can make an augured that due to the pilots training. That was a poor excused.

]]> By: squozzy http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut/comment-page-1#comment-8272 squozzy Thu, 07 Jan 2010 06:08:56 +0000 http://www.futurefirepower.com/if-looks-could-kill-the-sukhoi-su-47-berkut#comment-8272 try agian I meant the Berkut try agian I meant the Berkut

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